"Into The Woods" Has Full Cast, Started Rehearsal Aaaand Some Controversy... (Yes. Already.)

First order of business:

Disney's "Into The Woods" movie now has a full (and 100% confirmed) cast!


All the cast are as per the (GIANT) graphic I made HERE, with the addition of young Sophia Grace Brownlee as Little Red Riding Hood.
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Tori Amos' "The Light Princess" Starts Rehearsals (+ Film Making Comp To Win Tickets!)

Do you remember a little post from a few years ago, mentioning Tori Amos was composing lyrics and a score for George MacDonald's fairy tale The Light Princess*? Well the show is finally complete, started rehearsals a couple of days ago and is due to open in the National Theater, London, this September 25th (2013). And yes: You can now buy tickets!

All the official information and ticket links are HERE.

Press release:

Once, in opposing kingdoms lived a princess and a prince who had lost their mothers. Althea, unable to cry, became light with grief and floated, and so was locked away. Digby became so heavy-hearted that he could never smile, and so was trained as a warrior. 

One day, he declares war. Althea is forced out of hiding and down to ground but, in defiance of her father, she escapes, only to encounter the solemn prince on contested land. Beside a lake the warring heirs begin a passionate and illicit affair. But for Althea to find real love, she must first confront the world’s darkness and face her own deepest fears. 

The Light Princess brings together iconic singer-songwriter Tori Amos with playwright Samuel Adamson and directorMarianne Elliott (Curious Incident) in this spectacular coming-of-age story. A dark fairytale about grief, rebellion and the power of love. 

I’m done, Father,Keep your crown,I swear you’ll never bring me down!I am not queen material!

The cast went into rehearsals on Monday (August 5th, 2013) and are tweeting their experiences! Check the latest tweets HERE (no account required). Sounds like they're having a ball and like it will be a great show too.

We now also have some details about the show and how Ms. Amos adapted the fairy tale for a modern audience.
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And The Shoe Fit..? ("Breaking Pointe" Cinderella Revealed)

Reality ballet series - Mondays 9/8c on the CW network (USA)

Ballet reality show Breaking Pointe (on the CW network) is going behind the scenes as they put together their new production of Cinderella. And this Monday (yesterday), they announced who Cinderella will be - (and it really was a case of "whom the shoe fit"..!)

Although this is the poster from LAST season,
it seems very fitting for Cinderella, don't you think?

In case you haven't heard of this show before, the series, now in it's second season, follows the trials, tryouts and tears of Ballet Wests stars and up-and-comers as they vie for the best positions in various shows and in the company.


In staging a fairy tale ballet, not only will we see the drama that goes along with these athlete-artists competing and training for a grueling and high profile show, we'll also be seeing the nuances of how the fairy tale is interpreted and told via the medium of ballet.

While the show is airing well after the actual dramas, rehearsals and even performances have happened, it means we know a little more of how the show will turn out... (are you ballet people keeping up with my puns in this post? Good. ;)

The choreography is possibly the most well known version of Cinderella for ballet, by Sir Frederick Ashton, using Prokofiev's (AMAZING!!) score. (And yes, my MOOC-friends, it is based on Perrault's version. ;)

I haven't done enough research to know if they set this production in 1920's Hollywood like Nureyev did when he directed his production (I'm guessing fro the few pics I've seen, they didn't), but that interpretation, complete with pumpkin-to-rolls royce (& the ethereal Sylvie Guillem) stands out in my mind as being a excellent one (and if you're looking for a ballet version of Cinderella to study, I highly recommend that one).

Sylvie Guillem - Cinderella

Here's the press release from the Ballet West performance season announcement:

Join Ballet West for the sparkling new production of Sir Frederick Ashton’s Cinderella.Complete with a heart-stopping musical score by Sergei Prokofiev, this classic fairytale is filled with romance and comedy, mesmerizing dance, and hilarious fun for the entire family. Beautiful and grand, funny and touching, Ashton’s Cinderella has been called the perfect ballet experience for newcomers, young audiences and seasoned aficionados.  This season, Ballet West becomes the second company in America to present this magical spectacle. 

“A loving, funny, choreographically elegant setting of this beloved story and Prokofiev’s stirring score.”   – Alastair Macaulay, The New York Times

Cinderella rehearsal

If you're curious about the show, here's an excerpt from the "blurb";

2013 poster for Season 2

For the first time ever, the beauty and grace of ballet, the world's preeminent dance form, will be brought to television. Viewers will also see the dark side of this seemingly perfect world; the jealousy, competition and intensity that exist behind the scenes at a professional ballet company. For under the tights and tutus lie warriors, who battle in a gritty world of extreme athleticism, focus and dedication, while hunting for the unattainable...perfection. 

"Breaking Pointe" rips back the curtain on the inner workings of elite Salt Lake City Ballet Company, Ballet West. It obliterates the notion that ballet is a dated art form and shatters pre-conceived stereotypes about the men and women who give their lives to the world of ballet. Beneath their perfect exteriors, these dancers have the toughness of linebackers, punishing their bodies to achieve perfection and dancing through injuries and pain. 

...No one sees, when the curtain goes down, the drama that bleeds into the dancers’ private lives…until now.

If you're following the show and want to know who was cast in which roles, you can check the link HERE for the "spoilers" (scroll down).

You can also follow the Ballet West blog (with numerous excellent photos) HERE or on Facebook with lots of updates and sneak peeks HERE.

Fairy tale bonus of the day:

Ballet West also staged Aladdin earlier this year, of which there are some lovely and interesting photos, like the one below, HERE.

The Emperor's New Clothes Photo Series by Ted Sabarese

Note: Any pixelating was added for the purposes of this blog post ONLY. The only intention is to not have images on the blog that could be misconstrued as "adult" (and all the unpleasantness that comes with that if you attract the wrong sort of attention) while still being able to comment on, and reference, the images. It DOES, however, affect how this photography is viewed. I recommend you visit the artist's gallery HERE to see this series as it was meant to be seen.

We've seen many illustrations of this Hans Christian Andersen tale, many of them funny, but it's rare to see a photographic interpretation. Artist, photographer and director Ted Sabrese, who has done some very interesting projects, really did an amazing job of this series. Especially as it gets right to the heart of the story in just a glance.

I've had this bookmarked for a while, wondering how best to post on  the project to keep the blog "viewer friendly" and found a nifty little Photoshop tool to help me out. I have pixelated the images where there's nudity (or close enough) but DO recommend taking at look at the originals at the artist's Behance gallery HERE. Why? Not only were these subjects NOT meant to be covered in any way (as it defeats the purpose of the photos) but even the suggestion of doing so via pixelating, lessens the impact of these photos - a lot.

They're about exposure (doubly evident due to the medium!) and also about pride, and the original images put an interesting spin on that. Seeing different types of leaders and monarchs (un)dressed this way not only humanizes them but the lesson of their stubbornness instantly clear here. I actually think if the monarchs were completely nude, minus any undergarments or accessories, that it wouldn't impact us as much either, since we're so desensitized to different forms of nudity (at least in photography) these days.

The women in particular are interesting because they're neither sex objects, nor artful and appreciated nudes. While they're funny to us looking on, they're not at all funny to the exposed character. They're not being exhibitionists either, they're just trapped in their pride so it's a very interesting twist on how we usually see the undressed form.

It's so clear, that despite initially being swindled, these rulers aren't in a gullible state at this point, they're stubbornly prideful. And defensive. (Check the body language!)

It's also a very unique way of thinking about the fairy tale that I haven't seen tackled elsewhere (tackled - oh dear! lol). In these images it's very clear that if you were to take away their scepters, crowns and other accessories of station they would, indeed be bereft of any tokens of psychological armor and be mortified.

One of the great things about excellent art is that is makes us think of familiar things in a fresh way. Mr. Sabrese has a unique way of seeing people's "armor" and exposing it for what it is: take a look at his Hunger Pains, The Emoticon Project or Office Wear and you'll see what I mean. (And while you're there, click "appreciate this" to let him know we are very glad he is sharing his art and point of view.)

Fables TV Ad for BBC America (An Old Post You Never Saw, Updated So It Makes Sense Now)

-- Look! It's an old draft that never got posted and is somehow relevant again! I've kept some of the old post, added updates and smeared the words around a bit to hopefully make a little more sense in regards to where we are with Fables today.--

People who don't read comic books wonder what the big deal is about Fables.

Fairy tale folk who don't read comic book are among them but there's good reason we should be keeping an eye on this graphic novel series by Bill Willingham: what if the fairy tale characters we know and love got chased out of their own land and ended up stranded in our modern day world, where nobody was allowed to discover their storybook backgrounds?

Update:
We now know that:
1) Fables is a HUGE hit. Continually critically acclaimed, winner of multiple awards and written and illustrated by heavy hitters in the writing and comic art world, they're currently into issue #131 (not including spin-off issues or specials so add maybe close to 100 issues on top of that) and have self-contained stories and spin-offs for different characters such as Jack and Cinderella and now there's a whole new series spin-off, Fairest, for the ladies of Fable town, which is proving just as popular.

2) Outside the comic geek community the idea of fairy tale characters stranded in our world has proved popular with ABCs TV series Once Upon A Time. The series has been accused called "Fables-light" for the similar premise, of which the public are eating up.

So why hasn't Fables (which is clearly excellent in its own field, as well as the premise and content proving popular in public viewing) made the move to TV or the movies yet? (Even though there have been numerous attempts to do so, none have resulted in anything except disappointment so far.)

One popular theory is that it's REALLY HARD to market comic books to non-comic book people. But I have to wonder: IS it really hard, or have people just not thought about the comic book property in the same way they do a show, book or movie, with regard to the marketing? With the rise in popularity (Update: and - FINALLY - in quality) of book trailers out there (Update: these have become almost standard now and people/companies are getting creative with production and presentation) it's about time someone thought to do something similar for Fables. (Update: this trailer is from October 2009.)

Take a look:

While I'm really glad this has helped garner interest in the general public, I do have to say I'm disappointed. (Really disappointed!) Apart from the stunning art stills, which are mostly from the covers, the quality is definitely on the low side. But why? I know people are probably still getting their feet wet with "how do you advertise a comic book (ie. a static art form /narrative combo) on a moving medium like TV?" issues but this could have been mind blowing (seriously mind-blowing!) if they'd presented it better.

Update: And I also have to wonder, if they'd gotten this ad "right" back in 2009 if Fables would have beaten Once Upon A Time to TV after all... Of course, we'll never know now but I do hope they figure out another marketing strategy to use in the lead up to the movie buzz, rather than just rely on what the production company produce and piggy-back off that. While I'm incredibly overjoyed to know that "thars-a-Fables-movie-a-comin'!" the Fables serial comics, graphic novels and spin-offs have their own well deserved merit and should be able to stand on their own two feet, er, spines. I worry that if they (DC & Willingham) can't figure out how to encourage people to enjoy the graphic novels in their original medium that a whole generation will "just-go-see-the-movie" and miss out on the richness of storytelling and fairy tale evolution happening on the Fables pages. Let's hope they figure out how to make the Fables movie an encouragement to go pick up the series instead.

Note: There are some more trailers on YouTube for the Fables series, and some tributes though none of them are official. This one HERE tries to transition people from Disney to Fables and show the difference. It's somewhat successful in concept but is lengthy and the text is difficult to read over the images (and using any sort of Disney property doesn't sit well with me here). You DO get to see some beautiful artwork from Fables though and get an idea of the twists the stories take, so if you're finally feeling interested in Fables and want more of an overview before buying, this should give you some idea of how the series develops and how the fairy tale characters play out their stories.

In the meantime, while we wait to see what happens with the movie and the marketing surrounding it, I'll keep up the Fables-watch and report anything I see happening.

Ask Baba Yaga: Most Days I Feel Like I'm Choking on Ambivalence

Once Upon a Time Baba Yaga by Angela De Reis

If there's anyone who understands terror in all its forms, it's Baba Yaga. I have a feeling she bottles extra doses to have handy for boiling her vittles. You'll see what I mean...

This week's question and answer (via poet and oracle Taisia Kitaiskaia* of The Hairpin):

(Originally posted at The Hairpin HERE)

My favorite responses to date:

• All I want in life is a strange One to walk beside me. (JanieS)
• That's how soothsaying should work: maybe that handsome stranger is the herp. (adorable-eggplant)
• This has strains of Twin Peaks running through it, which scares me. (Anne Wachtel@Twitter)
• All I can think about is my diva cup spilling and i shudder. (ificouldiwould)
• Taisia Kitaiskaia, you and Baba Yaga are the living end. So deliciously weird yet on-point! (stonefruit)

I completely agree with stonefruit, delicious, yes, except... is it weird I don't think they're weird??
"..with all the mights of yr skull full of shining through the forrest.;" I guess that's one way to say "into the woods with you already!" If a cup of near-boiling glee and a skull full of shining is what I really have in my basket (!), I think I'd better get on with that walk.

What do you think of Baba Yaga's advice?

Want to ask Baba Yaga a question of your own?

You can!

There's now an email address where you can send your questions

directly to Baba Yaga herself.

AskBabaYaga AT gmail DOT com

To encourage Baba Yaga to continue imparting her no-bones-about-it wisdom (ok, there may be some gristle in there... bones too), I suggest we not to leave her box empty... 

Thank you Baba Yaga (& Taisia).

* Taisia Kitaiskaia is a poet, writer, and Michener Center for Writers fellow. Born in Russia and raised in America, she's had her poems and translations published in Narrative Magazine, Poetry International, and others.

Grownup & Gritty Rapunzel Heads To Japan in "Fairest: The Hidden Kingdom" (Fables Spin-Off)

The Hidden Kingdom - collection of Rapunzel issues #8-13 in one volume (Vol 2)

Note: This is a lengthy post - partly because I've included as-large-as-possibly-can-fit preview pages, so there is much more after the jump. While this series will not be everyone's taste it should be of great interest to anyone who loves Japanese fairy and folktales, as well as exploring the darker side of Rapunzel tales. I have linked to many more previews so you can have a good idea of what to expect, should you be concerned about the "darkness" of this series before reading. While there truly is a lot to be excited about in this series for fairy tale folk, it remains very adult so please use your discretion.

In a 6-part epic, Rapunzel lives one of the most regimented lives in Fabletown, forced to maintain her rapidly growing hair lest her storybook origins be revealed. But when word of her long-lost children surface, she races across the sea to find them--and a former lover. Rapunzel struggles through maternal heartache in modern Tokyo, along with heavy doses of Japanese folklore and some truly horrifying hair days in “Fairest: The Hidden Kingdom.”

I have to say, I am very intrigued by this preview and what Lauren Beukes revealed about writing this self-contained story under Bill Willingham's encouragement. The 6-part story runs through Fairest #8-13 and has just been released on Tuesday (July 30, 2013) as Volume 2: The Hidden Kingdom (see head of post for this cover).

Ms. Beukes is one an Arthur C. Clarke award winning writer who's style is initially hard to describe (edgy, modern, gritty, imaginative, witty, playful and sharp). I adored Zoo City, which could be loosely described as a gritty urban fantasy unlike anything I've ever read (and, being quite harsh in the light of the setting and subject matter, certainly won't be for everyone).

While Ms. Beukes clearly knows her magic and folklore, it feels incredibly real when she writes about it. It doesn't feel like fantasy and I wouldn't be at all surprised to walk into one of 'her" towns and see it exactly as she wrote. Nothing happens as you expect yet it still feels very reality based (which in turn makes you look at the real world with different eyes). This is probably why she's such a good fit for this Fables spin-off. Although the Fairest series is said to have a more of a fantastic "bent" than the original Fables, there is nothing sweetly "fairytale" (note the merged word, denoting pop-expectations) about these stories either, particularly this Rapunzel tale.
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Cinderella (Aschenputtel) by Līga Kļaviņa

Cinderella at her mother's grave by Līga Kļaviņa

When we see new Cinderella illustrations it's usually based on Perrault's version with the fairy godmother. Perhaps due to Disney's choice to base his Cinderella on Perrault's, it seems rare that we see an illustrated version of Aschenputtel by the Brothers Grimm, especially in English speaking countries.

These illustrations by Līga Kļaviņa (liga-marta on deviantArt), posted here by special permission, have been circulating for a while now but unless you go to her gallery, you don't tend to see them together (and many people don't seem to be aware that they're from Cinderella at all), so I feel it's overdue that Ms. Kļaviņa be credited for her lovely work and a beautiful interpretation of a much grimmer version of Cinderella than most are familiar with.

Ms. Kļaviņa has asked that people not use her art without her permission or linking to her gallery so if you see one of these images around, please help by making sure she's been given credit for the work and if you can link to her gallery on deviantArt HERE, that would be great too.

Here are the rest of her illustrations for this tale, along with a brief reminder of this version of the story in the captions below:

Stepmother with daughters

In this version, the rich father remarries, bringing his new family home. The women  - all beautiful and fair on the outside but evil-minded and ugly of heart - treat Cinderella badly, teasing her, making her work at very difficult tasks and generally making life miserable. Unlike other tales, the father remains in the picture throughout, though I'm rather mystified at why he allows this treatment of his own daughter.

She has to work again...

All her fine things are taken from her and she's given difficult-to-impossible tasks and made to work as the household maid.

Cinderella's father finds a hazel twig for her

Cinderella's father takes a journey at one point and, like Beauty's father, asks each of the girls what they would like for him to bring back. Like Beauty's story the sisters ask for fine clothes,  jewels and pearls (which he buys) but Cinderella asks for "the first twig that strikes your hat".

At mother's grave

Cinderella plants the twig by her mother's grave and waters it three times every day with her tears. The tree flourishes and birds come and grant Cinderella's small whispered wishes - whatever she asks (I have to wonder what those wishes were and why she wasn't more pro-active in changing her own fortune at this point).

Left at home
Though Cinder pleads to be allowed to attend the ball her stepmother doesn't allow it, despite that Cinderella (with help from her feathered friends) manages to complete impossible tasks which are supposed to be a condition of her going. She's left alone at home (where the father disappeared to so conveniently at this point, is unknown).

A walk in the garden

With no one to watch her, Cinderella goes to her mother's grave, weeps and wishes for a dress fine enough to go to the ball...

The first dress
Her wish is granted...

At the ball
...And she remains unrecognized even by her stepsisters and stepmother. She dances with the Prince then avoids him so she can leave undetected, depositing the dress under the tree by her mother's grave at the end of the night.

The second dress
The second night, the events repeat, only with the second gown being more splendid than the first.

The third dress
The third was the most splendid of them all and it was a little more difficult for Cinderella to get away this third time as the Prince had a plan...

Glass slipper
The Prince had cleverly spread pitch over the stairs and though Cinderella manages to get away, she loses a shoe in the trap.

Happy end

In case you were wondering, yes, this is the version in which the sisters do some "self-surgery" in order to make the shoe fit when the Prince (who deduced Cinder had disappeared in the vicinity of this house) comes knocking at their door. The birds in the story are there throughout and alert the prince to blood in the shoe twice before he returns to the house (depositing the fake-Cinders - twice) and demands to see any other daughters that might live there.

And here's the part I understand least of all in this story: even after the stepmother urges both daughters to mutilate themselves in order to catch a prince and they fail, at this point it's the father who says there's only "nasty little Cinderella" and she couldn't possibly be the one the prince was searching for. (Wut?!)

Then there's the whole thing with the stepsisters eyes being plucked out by those "gentle" doves at the wedding (which balances the fact that the prince does, indeed take a more scrutinizing look at Cinderella when the shoe fits and finally recognizes her) but what of the parents? Misery loves company has a whole different shade in this tale!

Ms. Kļaviņa has illustrations for numerous fairy tales on her deviantArt gallery (though this is the most completely illustrated one), along with lots of lovely fantasy illustrations. You can find all those HERE.

Cress: Cover Reveal, Excerpt, Interview w Marissa Myer, a Contest & a Movie Option To Boot

Big news for Marissa Meyer's sci-fi fairy tale series, The Lunar Chronicles, yesterday afternoon: The third installment of The Lunar Chronicles, Cress, got a cover reveal, we got another excerpt, USA Today had an interview with Ms. Meyer and there's now another chance to win an ARC via a Pinterest competition!

More on the book first. :)

Cress, if you weren't tipped off by the lovely cover, or the title, is based on Rapunzel, although this sci-fi Rapunzel's tower is out of reach in a different way - she's trapped in a satellite in orbit.

Here's an excerpt from the interview (in which Ms. Meyer teases a lot more about the plot and characters than I'm posting here, so be sure to go read the whole interview):

Q: Will Cress be more sci-fi than Scarlet or Cinder?

A: We are moving into more sci-fi elements. There is more time spent on the spaceship that we were introduced to in Book 2, and of course the satellite and the computer hacking. It still stays pretty focused on the characters and the different human things that they're facing as opposed to the technology.

Q: How is Cress similar to the Rapunzel we all know and love?

A: In the fairy tale, the prince finds Rapunzel because he hears her singing. I've taken that and given Cress this very overactive imagination that's a result of being stuck in this satellite solitary for so long. When she is in danger or in an uncomfortable situation, she goes into this imaginary world where she pretends she's an opera singer or an actress or a dancer. She has this fantasy life going on in her head that played off the original tale and how Rapunzel liked to sing.

Q: Does Cress borrow from the original fairy tale more or less than Cinder andScarlet did?

A: I'd say it's pretty comparable. As with all of the books, I've taken the iconic moments of the fairy tale and then gone off on my own after that. You still have the tower symbolism and this witch who's keeping her there. Rapunzel still has long, flowing locks of hair. Those iconic moments are still there, but then it does take on a life of its own in the world as she meets up with Cinder and Scarlet and the other characters.

You can read the rest of the (much longer!) interview HERE.

There is also a nicely-sized excerpt HERE as well (scroll down the page to read). One warning: if you read it, there's a very good chance it will make you even more impatient for the book!

But there is also a new chance to win an advance copy now and The Lunar Chronicles Pinterest Contest is the way to do it: "Create a Lunar Chronicles-inspired Pinterest Board for your chance to win a signed advance copy of CRESS." Full details and rules are on Marissa Meyer's post HERE. It's super easy and fun and open internationally!

The two books so far, Cinder & Scarlet, & their short story prequels, Glitches & The Queen's Army
(short stories published online at tor.com)

Cress is due for release on February 4th, 2014 so we've got a while yet to wait for the rest of the story BUT there MAY be movie news on the horizon as well! The Lunar Chronicles (yes, that means the series, not just the first book) has been optioned. (Congrats Marissa!)

Though optioning a book does not mean a movie is going into production, it means a company is seriously assessing whether or not they can do one. I have to wonder if the buzz around Jupiter Ascending (the sci-fi movie based on Snow White with Mila Kunis) will have any affect (hopefully good!) on the company's decisions...

Meyer will wrap up the series in early 2015 with Winter — her take on the Snow White legend — and already, her Lunar Chronicles novels have been optioned for a movie series. While the studio involved is still a secret, "I believe they're looking for a director at this point," says the author, who's halfway through the second draft of her final novel.

"I know what elements of the early books are foreshadowing bigger things to come, so I would assume that for them, having all the material in front of them could help them make decisions for the movies as well." (USA Today)

I really love seeing how Ms. Meyer has played with the themes, motifs and familiar tale elements for each fairy tale character so far and was so tickled just over the title, since the association with the plant has been quite lost since the "Tangle angle" ("The character is named after watercress — like rapunzel, it's a type of lettuce - quote from USA Today article).

I also love the fact that Rapunzel is traditionally up high in a tower (so the satellite in orbit is like the most remote tower possible) and that she's a spy - what a perfect vantage point a Rapunzel character - traditional or modern - would have from her 'prison' to view the world/s! It never occurred to me to have her be a secret onlooker before and I like the connection (seems obvious now, right?).

The Next Wave of Fairy Tale Movies.. (Humor)

The Three Little Pigs 
Potential Synopsis: Thomas Giles is a successful farmer, a faithful husband, a loving father, and a mad scientist. When three of Giles' genetically engineered pigs escape, he embarks on a race with town officials to hunt them down before it is too late.

Just a little light post for you all. :)

There's a lot of both excitement and eye-rolling about the continuing trend of making fairy tales into big budget movies in Hollywood so the folks over at College Humor thought they'd have some fun with it.

The Boy Who Cried Wolf 
Potential Synopsis: Prankster Aaron Jeckles has been crying wolf for years. When he takes one of his jokes too far, though, Jeckles quickly gets more attention than he's ever wanted… from a pack of wild beasts. Now, it's up to him to save his town.

Perhaps my perspective is different from the average College Humor reader (one hopes!) but I also find something thought provoking about the posters and the silly synopsis.

The Ugly Duckling 
Potential Synopsis: Haunted by the derision of the other ducklings, Cyngus flees from the public eye. It is only after he reaches adulthood does he realize his true swan identity… and the power that it yields.

There's more at the link HERE, including one about Goldilocks and magic porridge - which, come to think of it,we really haven't seen yet, and there are a lot of magic porridge tales in the world...

What do you think?